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通过争论,我发现一个事很玩:即,目的正确,手段就可以乱来么?
作者:一虫   324字节   点击:7010   回复:142   所属分类:
创建时间:2011-02-18 16:55:04   最后修改时间:2011-02-18 16:55:04  
为社会好,我同意,但这不能归因于 这个拟上市公司。这是大事,跟公司无关的。

即,你可以通过其它办法防止它变成常态,却不能 扭曲上市规则来达到你的目的。

你的目的、出发点是高尚的,但手段也是如此。上市要公平,只要合乎条件就能上,不能你主观设定可变的条件。

法制,就是说,不要随便来。否则,天下大乱。

一虫
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来自: 小来   字节:164  ID:17510  发贴时间:2011-02-18 17:03:40  原贴 
也没有人打砸抢这个公司,也没有人去给这个公司放火以阻止它上市,言者无罪,就是发表发表意见说它不应该上市,这事儿也构不成诽谤或者造谣诬陷,这手段哪里跟法制发生矛盾啦?  
来自: 60.242.81.*   字节:114  ID:17512  发贴时间:2011-02-18 18:00:59  原贴 
所有法规都有照顾不到之处,但并不意味着不能改变。上市规则更不是一成不变的,呼吁上市规则考虑人道主义又怎么是随便来。  
来自: 114.243.81.*   字节:242  ID:17515  发贴时间:2011-02-18 21:55:17  原贴 
1、你们可以说,我可以反驳。各有各的自由。我只是说你们的说法,不能成立。

2、如果是法院判决,媒体其实是不能在判决前乱报道的。有干预之嫌。

3、法规是可能照顾不到,请您呼吁修改法律吧。在此之前,只能根据法规来。这是原则。

一虫  
来自: 毒药铁链西瓜刀   字节:733  ID:17516  发贴时间:2011-02-18 22:22:22  原贴 
我支持大虫。
如果活熊取胆已经是一种社会不能容忍的不道德行为,那么社会各界应该推动法律禁止这项经营活动。
而不应在上市这件事上胡乱打破规则。
而且我认为即使可以,也不应出现某项法律规定画蛇添足地禁止涉足活熊取胆的企业上市。
打个比方,如果某个上市公司被发现参与制毒贩毒,是否法律还要专门出一条具体规定说参与贩毒的公司不能上市呢?
如果真是如此,不等于说贩毒合法吗?那就不是进步是退步了。
从另外一个角度说,对很多经济活动的道德判断在社会上也不是那么容易取得共识。烟草相关企业难道不是在毒杀消费者吗?它们是否也应该被禁止上市?做皮草的企业呢(活X取皮)?夜总会呢(卖淫涉黄)?连锁网吧呢(“毒害”青少年)?网游公司呢?“直销”公司呢?
法制社会,理当有法律来禁止一切不人道的事情。但不是每一个领域的法律都应该起这个作用吧?  
来自: 60.242.81.*   字节:148  ID:17517  发贴时间:2011-02-18 23:08:24  原贴 
活熊取胆必定很快会被取缔,因为中国正在制订《动物保护法》,上市法规也得遵守一般法律不是?比如商家写个与顾客之间的协议,如果违反消费法,那就是无效的。  
来自: 毒药铁链西瓜刀   字节:246  ID:17519  发贴时间:2011-02-19 10:21:01  原贴 
楼上,我就是这个意思啊。
上市法规用不着改,从事非法经营活动的肯定不能上市,这肯定是有规定的。
关键是《动物保护法》。
如果《动物保护法》不管这事,人们也不能从上市的角度去找补。
否则就会出现上面我说的问题,做皮草的,是不是也该禁止上市?  
来自: 114.243.106.*   字节:188  ID:17524  发贴时间:2011-02-19 21:25:58  原贴 
中国正在制订《动物保护法》?草案还没出来吧?纵出来也不一定会让“活熊取胆必定很快会被取缔”。请给证据。若你说的是真的,是不能上市。但目前上市公司上海凯宝就是主营熊胆原料的中药。

一虫  
来自: 小来   字节:436  ID:17525  发贴时间:2011-02-20 01:33:16  原贴 



原来证监会还有这么一个管理办法呀:



首次公开发行股票并上市管理办法

第二十五条 发行人不得有下列情形:
……
(六) 严重损害投资者合法权益和社会公共利益的其他情形。



如果社会能够有足够舆论来证明获取熊胆的行为严重损害了“社会公共利益”,归真堂真的可能上不了市。

这不是我说的,是专业人士说的。出处在此:http://finance.sina.com.cn/stock/newstock/zxdt/20110211/22299363328.shtml
 
来自: 114.243.102.*   字节:182  ID:17527  发贴时间:2011-02-20 18:49:43  原贴 
这人不专业的。因为上海凯宝已上市成功。若这事损害社会公共利益,凯宝为何能上市?

这东西得一视同仁的。

另外,这事损害的是熊,不是社会利益。社会是人。不是动物。

一虫  
来自: 小来   字节:753  ID:17530  发贴时间:2011-02-20 19:56:04  原贴 
因为上海凯宝已经上市成功,所以这人不专业?

别告诉我这是你的逻辑。很奇怪的。

上海凯宝是2010年1月上市的,也许那时候民众对获取熊胆的关注还没有上升到社会公共利益的高度。

这个规定是针对首次上市的公司的,上海凯宝已经上市了,不再受这个规定的监管了。但是,还没有上市的公司,就得受这个规定的监管。


这事除了损害熊,还损害了一部分人的情感。这部分人数量多了,他们的表达形成了足够的舆论,这事儿损害的就是社会利益。你不能说保护民众的精神和情感不受伤害不包括在社会利益里吧?

现在证监会有一现成的法规摆着。你要法制,这就是法制。既然有规定可以阻止它上市,那阻止它上市就不是乱来,不是违法,更不是扭曲规则。至于监管部门最后怎么裁定,自然有专门的人去处理,不是我们,也不是你。但是注意不要随便乱给别人扣各种大帽子。不讲法的人恰恰是你。  
来自: 毒药铁链西瓜刀   字节:239  ID:17532  发贴时间:2011-02-20 21:23:29  原贴 
一部分人的情感=社会公共利益?话说前几年网游被叫做电子海洛因,连互联网业内人士还有说史玉柱祸国殃民的,至于向网游发出血泪控诉的家长,更是不少,这类人,在中国只怕不比爱熊人士少吧。如果下次有人要阻止网游公司上市,不知道小来同学支持还是不支持?  
来自: 小来   字节:432  ID:17533  发贴时间:2011-02-20 22:26:37  原贴 
以下回复只针对你的第一句话:一部分人的情感=社会公共利益?

妇女是货真价实的社会的“一部分人”而不是全部的人,那么妇女的各种诉求,比如最基本的,要求同工同酬的权利,算不算社会公共利益?按照你目前表现出来的逻辑, 你肯定认为不算是吧?——所以,我没必要说服你认为它算。


至于你这些话的其他部分:向网游发出血泪控诉的人“在中国只怕不比爱熊人士少”这件事你完全不可能证明,所以你的这部分言论毫无意义,不予回复,完毕。

 
来自: 124.126.245.*   字节:190  ID:17536  发贴时间:2011-02-21 10:19:11  原贴 
小来,你若能证明真的损害了公众利益,有违国家产业政策,我支持你。

:)

如果法律没变,一家上了市,一家上不了。这是不公平的,也是不合理的。按判例法来说,也是不合法的。

一虫  
来自: 小来   字节:850  ID:17537  发贴时间:2011-02-21 10:54:53  原贴 
从县森,我从头到尾就没说过这件事损害了公众利益,我也不需要你支持我,我只说一点:国家有法规,规定首次上市的公司如果有危害公共利益的情形存在,是可以不被允许上市的,而现在出于对获取熊胆的严重反感,社会上有一部分人正在表达他们认为该公司不应该上市的言论,如果这种言论继续地扩大,形成足够的舆论,这就可以认为该公司损害了社会公共利益,监管部门就可以以此为理由不准该公司上市。

直至目前,这整个过程,完全合情合理合法,既没有人采取暴力,也没有造谣诬陷中伤任何公司和个人,因为,我不说别的了,你的这篇博文,声称反对该公司上市是不讲法制,是乱来,是置明确法规于不顾的胡说,我不知道是你根本不知道该法规的存在呢,还是你不理解该法规,总而言之,你的这篇博文是错误地。

至于你的该公司可以上市的论点,你有你的理由,而且你很爱你的理由,你愿意把它放在你的脑子里非常安全的角落予以珍藏,跟我毫无关系,我既不想更深入地发现它,也没兴趣对它做任何改变。你放心好了。  
来自: 小来   字节:100  ID:17538  发贴时间:2011-02-21 10:57:02  原贴 
哦哦,另外,中国不采用判例法。当然你可以说在实际司法操作中有判例法的影子,毫无疑问,你是永远正确的。  
来自: 124.126.245.*   字节:781  ID:17539  发贴时间:2011-02-21 11:05:57  原贴 
1、我的文章就是说那个管理办法的。只是那个你所引用的条款,你是错误引用。

根本不是你所理解的那样。

社会上有一部分人正在表达他们认为该公司不应该上市的言论,如果这种言论继续地扩大,形成足够的舆论,这就可以认为该公司损害了社会公共利益,监管部门就可以以此为理由不准该公司上市。

----------------这种舆论影响司法的观点是非常错误的,是不可取的。从法理上讲,监管部门不能因此有任何改变。除非你能证明它影响了公众利益,比如,污染,比如有毒有危害。这个是 环保部、卫生部的事儿。证监会不会处理这种专业技术的问题,得由其它部出文的。

2、判例法在中国是没有,但在法理上,是有非常大的参考意义的。

3、我不怕改变,我们只是友善地讨论,没有相互说服的意思。请不用生气:)

4、大家可以反对它上市,我可以说这个反对没道理。这不是反对大家的言论自由,请理解。

一虫  
来自: 124.126.245.*   字节:487  ID:17540  发贴时间:2011-02-21 11:15:09  原贴 
一虫 以下为转

在西方法律界,不论是海洋法系还是大陆法系的国家都排斥“舆论监督司法”这样的概念,担心造成公众对司法的不信任,从而损失法律的权威性;而在西方新闻界,则习惯于担当与主流政治制度对抗的角色,司法便是主流政治制度的替身。

但是,由于传媒和司法至少在形式上都宣布其价值追求是“公正”,因而各法治国家均将新闻自由和司法独立作为基本价值予以肯定。同时我们还应注意,司法追求的是法律公正,而传媒体现的则是自身或受众观念上的、道德意义的公正。这两者的差异正是本文企图理清的。  
来自: 小来   字节:414  ID:17541  发贴时间:2011-02-21 11:26:36  原贴 
发表意见,形成舆论,就变成舆论监督司法了。这么跳跃的思维,我自愧弗如。

那么我们对这件事禁止有舆论好吗?你很喜欢这样?可是请问那条法律支持你喜欢呢?

好吧,你的境界上升到正义和公正,所以你可以随意指责没有触犯和违背任何法律的人,说他们是乱来和不讲法制。ok,这是你赋予自己的权利,我们无话可说。

我还是一句话,你这篇博文是错误的,因为你把一个不存在的罪名强加给了什么错也没有犯的人。这不对,很不对。  
来自: 124.126.245.*   字节:392  ID:17542  发贴时间:2011-02-21 12:21:34  原贴 
1、发表意见,形成舆论,影响司法,是你自己说的。详见“如果这种言论继续地扩大,形成足够的舆论,这就可以认为该公司损害了社会公共利益,监管部门就可以以此为理由不准该公司上市”。

2、我不赞成 禁止舆论。只是这个不能成为司法的判决理由而已。

3、人人有言论自由,包括我。我说错了,欢迎你指出来。我说他们是乱来、不讲法制,他们可以不赞成,你可以反对,对此,我均支持。哈哈

一虫

 
来自: 小来   字节:510  ID:17545  发贴时间:2011-02-21 13:57:18  原贴 
这种言论继续扩大,形成了舆论,这是一种客观存在的社会反馈,既然这条法规本身就是以社会反馈作为主要依据,那么以一种客观存在的社会反馈作为该司法决策的参考,你不愿意同意,那是你的权利。我不介意。

社会公共利益不能以舆论的形式表现,那么以什么表现?以你或者我心灵深处对此高兴不高兴,喜欢不喜欢来表现?不好意思,那可能不行。

此事很简单:你错了,我指出了,你不肯承认。
你随意指责别人是乱来这一点是错误的,这一结论我不需要你支持。

哈哈。(我也试试这种在没什么可哈哈的情境下哈哈是什么感觉……)
 
来自: 124.126.245.*   字节:237  ID:17546  发贴时间:2011-02-21 14:07:54  原贴 
哈哈:) 很好。

1、这条法规本身就是以社会反馈作为主要依据。-----这个是你的误解。请咨询法律人士。

2、社会公共利益主要通过法律及司法认定、法官判决、行政认定等等来实现。

多数人或少数人的一时舆论可能是错的。

一虫  
来自: 小来   字节:178  ID:17548  发贴时间:2011-02-21 17:31:00  原贴 
哈哈。

你对发表合法言论而没有任何违法事实的人说:你们乱来,你们随便来,你们不讲法制,你们真好玩。

你错了。不讲法制的是你,好玩的也是你。

多说无益。以此结案。  
来自: 124.193.68.*   字节:72  ID:17551  发贴时间:2011-02-22 21:55:03  原贴 
楼上火气好大……俺借火头炒个鸡蛋……

青年半人机器 留 吃炒蛋去了!  
来自: 124.126.245.*   字节:38  ID:17552  发贴时间:2011-02-23 10:24:24  原贴 
哈哈:) 最近空气不好,容易上火。 一虫  
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https://kharkov-post.at.ua/board/uslugi_v_raznykh_sferakh/142
https://cherkassi-post.at.ua/board/produkty_pitanija/77
https://nikopol-post.at.ua/board/kompjutery/45
https://rovno-post.at.ua/board/svjaz_i_telekommunikacii/126
 
来自: 95.47.123.*   字节:283  ID:2641278  发贴时间:2021-03-04 23:51:41  原贴 
https://gorlovka-post.at.ua/board/promyshlennoe_oborudovanie/90
https://kirovograd-post.at.ua/board/zhivotnye_zootovary/123
https://luck-post.at.ua/board/neft_gaz_ugol/72
https://hmelnicki-post.at.ua/board/neft_gaz_ugol/72
https://mariupol-post.at.ua/board/raznoe/164
 
来自: 95.47.123.*   字节:291  ID:2645816  发贴时间:2021-03-10 22:20:27  原贴 
https://crimea-post.at.ua/board/bytovye_tovary/18
https://ifrankovsk-post.at.ua/board/prochie_tovary/120
https://simferopol-post.at.ua/board/kompjutery/45
https://kirovograd-post.at.ua/board/uslugi_v_raznykh_sferakh/142
https://odessa-post.at.ua/board/zhivotnye_zootovary/123
 
来自: 146.120.244.*   字节:516  ID:2657935  发贴时间:2021-03-23 01:33:53  原贴 
https://dp-post.at.ua/board/bytovye_tovary/detskie_tovary/chto_takoe_fimoz_u_malchikov/30-1-0-12
https://ddoshosting.blogspot.com/2020/10/blog-post_54.html
https://nikolaev-post.at.ua/board/bytovye_tovary/khozjajstvennye_tovary/zherlicy_dlja_zimnej_rybalki_prodolzhenie_o_sokhrannosti_zhivcov/19-1-0-3530
https://hmelnicki-post.at.ua/board/bytovye_tovary/khozjajstvennye_tovary/chto_za_zver_zmeegolov/19-1-0-2368
https://clinicmedicall.blogspot.com/2020/11/oncotarget-temporal-effects-of-topical.html
 
来自: 91.231.55.*   字节:490  ID:2663786  发贴时间:2021-03-29 21:01:49  原贴 
http://www.uck.at/cgi-bin/umfrage/vote.cgi?&action=auswertung&daten=1127913523&start=142140&reverse=1
https://diannasgiftbaskets.com/component/k2/item/32-how-to-be-an-effective-in-house-seo/32-how-to-be-an-effective-in-house-seo?start=20120
http://www.forum86.ru/discussion/index.php?topic=16.1052010
http://samburuassembly.go.ke/index.php/forum/web/92506-enzycle?start=18
http://www.uck.at/cgi-bin/umfrage/vote.cgi?&action=auswertung&daten=1127913523&start=122540&reverse=1
 
来自: 91.231.55.*   字节:505  ID:2667246  发贴时间:2021-04-01 04:47:29  原贴 
http://www.c9wiki.com/link.php?url=https://murzilka.com.ua/ru/232-vkladyshi-dlya-mnogorazovykh-podguznikov
http://esci.edu.in/component/k2/1-class-aptent-taciti-sociosqu-ad-litora-torquent-per-conubia-.html?limit=10&start=2500
http://www.samburuassembly.go.ke/index.php/forum/web/5741-opent?start=4908
https://regionaltestingcorp.com/index.php/component/k2/item/8-closes-bristol-and-colchester-outposts-to-consolidate?start=173020
http://www.forum86.ru/discussion/index.php?topic=17.290130
 

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